After the Sudden Loss of a Child: Grief, Faith & Restored Hope with Linda Stirling, Jeff’s Mom

What happens after the sudden death of a child? Linda Stirling knows that journey firsthand after losing her 19-year-old son, Jeff, in an airplane crash.

In this conversation, Linda shares what sudden child loss feels like in the days, weeks and months that follow—including the shock, guilt, regret and loneliness that can remain long after the funeral. We also talk about what to say to a grieving parent, what not to say, how faith can become a lifeline in grief, and how to take the next step when life no longer looks anything like you expected.

If you know a grieving parent or are grieving the loss of a child yourself, Linda’s story offers practical encouragement, understanding and hope.

Learn more at https://umbrellaministries.org and for San Diego support at https://umbrellaministriessd.com. If this helped you, subscribe, share it with someone who’s hurting, and leave a review so more families can find hope.
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Transcript

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Welcome And Guest Introduction

Speaker 1:33

Well, hi everyone, and welcome back. I'm Greg Buffkin. And on this episode, you'll be hearing from Linda Stirling, president of Umbrella Ministries, which is a nonprofit ministry, reaching out to moms who have experienced the loss of a child in order to offer community, resources, and hope. During our conversation, you'll hear about the tragic and unthinkable loss of Linda's 19-year-old son Jeff in an airplane crash in the mountains of Idaho. And how God is now using her painful grief journey to encourage and offer hope to other grieving moms, both personally and through her role with Umbrella Ministries. And now, here's my conversation with Linda. Well, hi Linda. Hi doing. I'm so glad. Hey, I'm so glad you could join us today. Welcome to our podcast. Thank you. Yeah, it's great to have you. I've been looking

Linda’s Life And Family Today

Speaker 2:33

forward to this. Linda, before we dive into your story, I always give my guests a, you know, a minute or two longer if if need be. Just to share a little something personal with our listeners about you, you know, what you do, where you live, and that sort of thing.

Speaker 2 2:48

Okay. Well, I ’m a happy grandma with six wonderful grandchildren. My husband is a retired state senator and retired judge, and we are very happily positioned in a home here in San Diego. I'm still working. I love my job because I've also coupled with my surviving son, Greg, as a partner in wealth management, providing financial services and financial planning for investors through Raymond James. So a busy lady that has been using her life experience of losing our wonderful son Jeff in a ministry that that is also a great part of my life, umbrella ministries. So that's kind of where I am right now.

Speaker 3:38

Sounds like you do have a very full life. What's the age range on those grandchildren, by the way?

Speaker 2 3:44

Well, they're amazing. One family has five boys, and they're just still yes. And actually, my daughter-in-law experienced the loss of a full-term baby. Um I'm so sorry. Yeah. And then, and that was a a really difficult time for their family, but it was their third child, and she went on to have three more. So she had five boys, and then my son has our princess granddaughter, and she is a junior at the University of San Diego. Just did a semester abroad in Spain, which my husband and I went and visited her. But she's she's just a light in our life. She's a wonderful, faith-filled young woman, and so are those boys homeschooled.

Speaker 4:34

And oh wow, five kids homeschooled. What a mom.

Speaker 2 4:40

Amazing mom, yeah, yeah. But they have a real community and community of believers that come together for that education. But their their kids, the two that are out of high school, graduated with already with one year of college accredited, did one year of of junior college, and then graduated from an institution and a university in two years. So it's they've they've been well raised and well trained, and it's it's a joy part of the joy part of my life.

Speaker 5:12

Yeah, they are, aren't they? And and I can only imagine that granddaughter must have gotten some amazing attention as she was growing up, being the only girl.

Speaker 2 5:23

Yes. And the boys just love her. I mean, they are so protective. The oldest is calling her constantly to make sure she's you know doing well. And so it's so wonderful. We just celebrated my husband's 83rd birthday all together at a resort out in Palm Springs. And uh we did scavenger hunts and just all kinds of games, competitions, and is it was celebrating life.

Speaker 5:54

Um, that is so good. And everybody was there?

Speaker 2 5:58

Everyone was there.

Speaker 5:59

Oh, that's amazing.

Speaker 2 6:01

Including my sister and her husband, and we were uh 18 altogether celebrating.

Speaker 6:08

So wow,

Remembering Jeff And His Passion

Speaker 6:09

that that is a big celebration.

Speaker 2 6:11

It was. It was wonderful.

Speaker 6:13

Yeah, that's bad, yeah, that's great. I'm glad you guys could do that. Well, you mentioned uh a moment ago when you were you were talking, your son Jeff, and that's why we're having this conversation today. And I would love for you to just spend a few minutes telling our listeners about that boy Jeff.

Speaker 2 6:32

Yeah, yeah. Jeff was firstborn and incredibly precocious. We all think our kids are are very special, and they are, but literally at 18 months to two years, he could recite a golden book from beginning to end. His vocabulary was amazing. He'd sing, God bless America, it's his the highest pitch he could possibly garner. And you know, and a little toe head, and just a very active, very enthusiastic young little boy. But as he grew up, it today we would have diagnosed it as uh dyslexia. So dyslexia, you sort of miss the middle part of learning. So you can you got the subject and you got where it went, but you missed the verb in between. It's that and so his experience in school was devastating. It you know, it caused bad behavior. Ultimately, he did graduate from high school, but the big moment in his life was his dad had a plane and we used to fly numerous places, and he loved flying. So at 15, he was able to get his private pilot's license.

Speaker 7:49

And 15. Wow. Did he get his pilot's license before his driver's license?

Speaker 2 7:56

Uh yes, he did.

Speaker 7:57

That's amazing.

Speaker 2 7:59

Now in Idaho, where we were living, you can drive at 14 during the day because it's a like a farming law, because farmers' kids needed to drive the tractors and so on.

Speaker 8:09

So he had been gotcha.

Speaker 2 8:12

But they, when you get your pilot's license, they you have to wear a tie and they cut the tie. And in the the teaching school where he was at the airport, they they hang those half ties up to honor your getting your license. And he flew everywhere. He had picked me up at Salt Lake City Airport. We were in Hawaii, flew in and out of Kahaloui, we flew over to Lanae, he landed uh and took took off. He was an outstanding pilot. So yeah, yeah.

Speaker 8:42

So how how old was he when he was doing when he was piloting all those trips you were just talking about?

Speaker 2 8:48

Well, you know, he his accident occurred at 19. So you know, around 17 and 18, he was living. My my first husband, his father, and I divorced, and he was living with his dad up in Idaho. And so he was working at the airport. He loved what he did. It had nothing to do with scholastics, it was everything to do with flying

The Airplane Crash And Aftermath

Speaker 2 9:14

and and mechanics of airplanes. He was really in a what we thought was a sweet spot.

Speaker 1 9:21

Yeah.

Speaker 2 9:22

And so, you know, almost more challenging was the fact that one day he was met a young girl and he wanted to take her up into the mountains. And we aren't sure if it was up, it was October, whether he was looking at the beautiful colors of the fall or they were looking for game, because everybody's a hunter up there. But he was in a plane that didn't have the power of his dad's plane, and he it appears that he went up to get over a mountainside that and the plane didn't have the power to get over it. So he banked to the left to to make a turn, and his wing caught, and he was killed instantly in that plane. And fortunately, and and thank God the young girl survived and a hiker was nearby to come and and rescue her, and helicopters were in before nightfall, but we didn't get Jeff uh down until the next day. And gosh. I know. It's you know, accidents, your loss is so instant.

Speaker 1 10:35

Yeah.

Speaker 2 10:36

There's we grieve and we experience the loss of a child in many, many different ways, and each one has its challenges, really.

Speaker 10:45

Yeah. Yeah. You know, it doesn't it doesn't really matter how we lose them, does it? It it it's just different. But I do th I do think that uh because of so many conversations I've had with so many parents who have lost children, that that when it's sudden, unexpected, whether it is a result of uh of a fatal accident, whether it was a suicide, whatever it might have been, when it was sudden, unexpected, there was no way to prepare ahead of time. Not that we can prepare for the death of a child regardless, but it just, you know, when they're taken, when they're here in one moment, and the next moment they're not here anymore, and that relationship is suddenly severed, it it's hard to know what how to go and take that next step and take your next breath because it's it's so traumatic. It it's uh you you really can't explain it to to anybody who hasn't lived it.

Speaker 2 12:04

You know, she was too young, she was in her seventies.

Speaker 12:08

It was but it was kind of expected too, right?

Speaker 2 12:11

Yes, and I knew at the time it was going to be any day, you know, and so the phone call was almost anticipated. The phone call that I got, I was in San Diego, and of course Jeff's passing accident was in Idaho. And the good news, my his father called two of my best friends before he called me. And he so when he called me, I actually was screaming so loud that my neighbors called the police because they thought I was being something was happening to me.

Speaker 12:49

And so there was something happening to you.

Speaker 2 12:52

Yes, yes, it was. It was as brutal as someone beating me. And my other son, Greg, was there and so the it's the what I kept saying was no. No, no, it because it couldn't be, it couldn't have happened. It it wasn't, you know, it was not part of any reality I could understand. And so that is the first shock. And every minute, every hour from then on is a new reality in your life. From that, from then on. I mean, even today, years later, I'm fortunate to be having this conversation because of how God has blessed me to use his loss. But there were a lot of years in between. And from those girlfriends were at my door, and then many more that they called to come and stand beside me. And I'll never forget. And this is kind of the quirky thing about how God uses other people. But there was a doctor who was a uh husband of one of my friends who the phone rang and I answered it, thought it was maybe my uh Jeff's dad calling me again. And he called me. And as a doctor, I think he's probably experienced people with loss, I'm sure. But he said, he's just said, you know, Linda, I heard about Jeff, and I just want you to know that, you know, God has his arms around him and he's right there in his mercy right now. And he said, and I'm praying for you. And so out of the blue, this was even more impressive to me than all my girlfriends who are surrounding me, who you might expect to be there. But sometimes the unexpected can bring you just a solace, at least for a moment, when you realize how much other people really care for where you are. And we got through, we had to get up to Idaho, we went through, we had the memorial service. His ashes were scattered over the river behind our home there. And but then we came back. And you know, once all that activity and all that planning and all that struggle emotionally to get through a memorial service, and then you come home. And that's when you start dealing with it. That's when you start living the reality. And you know, it was my teenage son, 15 years old, who said, Mom, you got to go back to work and I've got to go back to school. We can't just sit here. You know, we've got to move. And I thought, well, he's right. He's right. And so we we both started to put a foot,

Psalm 23 In The Dark Valley

Speaker 2 15:37

one foot in front of the other, to take life back in the new reality and continue with the life that we knew was ahead of us. And it was truly one of those nights. I was, I'd cry myself to work, work hard. I deal with people personally, so I need to be personable and strong. And then I'd cry myself home. So one night it's pouring down rain, freeway is packed. I am so sad. And I'm literally pounding on the dashboard thinking, Jeff, you are such a good pilot. How could you do this? Literally, it was like I heard this voice out of the radio in my car saying, Mom, don't be mad. I didn't mean to. You know how your kids say that when they've done stuff.

Speaker 16:18

Yeah. Mom, don't be mad.

Speaker 2 16:21

Yeah, really. And I, you know, I really at that moment sort of awakened to the reality of, you know, my son, you know, accident. It was an accident. And I reached in the pocket of my car, and this is such a God thing, but there was a little C D, there's a pastor out of, he's past now, Presbyterian George Hollywood, who did a study on what was called walking with the shepherd. And it you can, so many years ago it was a C D, put it in, and that was the beginning of my walk out of the shadow of the valley, was to literally know that I had a shepherd that was right by my side. He had a staff to guide me, and he would push away the predators, open up the path, give me strength, because he was walking me out of a very dark valley. And that literally, day after day after day, I put a portion of that psalm on what we had daytime at the time. And every I would read a portion of it and it would give me strength. You know, yay, though I walk through the valley of the shadow, you know, he's with me. He's with me. His rod and his staff, they comfort me. And I can be by the still waters, I can be more tranquil, I can be settled down because I can acknowledge who he is. And I knew too, as I faced my life, that that shepherd was my provider as well. So this this has been part of the story that I can share is that we all have a shepherd that wants to walk beside us in this very, very dark valley that we tend to turn around and go back into. And then we start walking out again, and he will always be there. And he was there for me for to bring me to a life of fullness again, ultimately.

Speaker 18:20

And I understand that at a very personal level, and uh because the the one that you're referring to is Jesus. And I cannot imagine experiencing what you and I have experienced and not knowing him and having a relationship with him. It doesn't take away the pain and it doesn't take away the loss, but to have him in it with us, you know, he steps into that pain and into that trauma with us, and

When People Show Up Well

Speaker 18:51

he promises not to leave us, and he doesn't. So you and I both have experienced him on a very personal level. Something you you've already made a reference to a few minutes ago was those people who, those girlfriends in your life, that call from your from that physician, and and those things are so important because when you lose a child, you just suddenly feel so isolated and and very alone, even in a in a crowd. And after the funeral, after all of those legal things that you know that you have to walk through, as you said very well, that's when reality hits. Everybody else goes back to their you know to their normal daily routines, their normal daily life. And it feels like our life has is has has just suddenly stood still. And we don't know where to go, we don't know what to do, we need people. I would like for for us just to spend a few minutes talking about the people that moved towards you and did it right, because very often when this happens, people don't know what to do with us. Whether it's friends or family, people that we work with, some don't know what to do, and as uh consequently they move away from us. They act as though nothing ever happened. And that is that's incredibly hurtful. And sometimes we find ourselves getting angry with them because we feel like they should understand. But in order to understand, they would have had to have experienced what we have, and we wouldn't want that for them.

Speaker 2 20:43

It's almost like you're a bit contagious, you know, that yeah, yeah, because uh I definitely I mostly in my office, you know, I kind of worked and came home and worked and came home, but I was in a big office, and you know, I'd walk to go to the copy machine or whatever I was gonna do, and I literally would see people put their head down because they didn't want to smile at me if the smile wasn't right. They didn't want to see me cry if I might have had tears. And so I I felt my heart went out to them because I didn't know how to tell them it's okay. You know, hey, you don't know what to do, and I understand because there's nothing you can do. But don't look away, you know.

Speaker 21:32

Yeah, engage. I think that's I think that's what hurts the most is when people pretend that that they don't see us when they do. You know, whether it maybe it's in the grocery store, maybe it's in the pharmacy or or at work, and we know that they see us, but they don't know what to do, and so they choose to do nothing. And we could probably spend a lot of time talking about some of the things that they if they choose to say something, some of the things that people say sometimes are let's just say very hurtful. We could probably go deeper, but we won't. So let's talk about the ones who who move towards you, like we were talking about, and actually stepped into your grief journey with you, who didn't shy away from it and didn't shy away from you. What did that look like as it played out in your relationships with them?

Speaker 2 22:29

They in that I was a single mom at the time. I had one girlfriend that was also had gone through a divorce, and that was also relatively fresh. So there were that that was augmented the estrangement that you felt in losing a child and not having a spouse there to comfort you.

Speaker 22:53

That's an extra, yeah, that's an extra layer of grief.

Speaker 2 22:56

Yes, and you know, often and unfortunately, that losses can cause divisions in marriages because men and women grieve very differently. And not acknowledging and understanding that can really cause a rift in a marriage. And I know my Jeff's dad grieved very differently than than I did. He actually created kind of a shrine to Jeff. I mean, I I that was not my way of coping with losing Jeff. I mean, it had his wrap. And I had his pictures, but I didn't literally build a shrine. But everyone does it differently the way they need to do. So this one girl girlfriend particularly just made sure that we on the weekends went for a walk and just walked and walked. And I've learned that's my big offer to moms who I'm provided information about and I reach out to who've lost a child. I just say, I'm a walker. Let's go for a walk. And walking together, just, you know, you're not always talking about the child or, you know, that, but you're actually sometimes even having a good laugh together about something that's happened irrelevant to the loss. But it lets life go on when someone normal comes alongside of you and just is themselves. They aren't trying to fix you because they're not going to fix you.

Speaker 24:21

That is so important. I'm glad you said that and used that word.

Speaker 2 24:25

Yeah.

Speaker 24:26

Not trying to fix us. Because sometimes people take us on as a project. And they think that if they say the right things and do the right things, and often enough that they can somehow fix us. Because they want the all they want the old us back, right? Yeah. Well, that's that I'm glad you shared that because I think that's great. Just moving, you know, whether it's walking or do just some kind of normal.

Speaker 2 24:56

Being alone is not good. That is where you'd breed sadness and feeling sorry for yourself and that life is never going to be the same, all those negative thoughts. And you know, being with someone, even if you said those negative things, they absorb some of that. So being a walker and a talker with me, just they they bounce, let things bounce off of them. You know,

What Not To Say

Speaker 2 25:23

I over time I met so many incredible mothers with incredible stories of loss and how they walked out of the valley. And I ended up writing a book. It's called Hope for a Broken Heart. And it's 12 stories of mothers who walked through 12 different losses that I was able to chronicle their story. But one of them told the story that they belonged to a tennis club. And their son, John, had played tennis with them, and all the people knew John and knew them. But when they decided to go back to the tennis club, the people turned their backs and walked the other way because they didn't know what to say to them. Or they, when by the time months later, that they went back to playing tennis at the club and they would kind of be tearful, that even people would say, Oh, I thought you'd be better by now. You know, well, there's no better by now. There's no better by it always, it can come on at the weirdest times, strangest times, that the tears are flowing back. But in her chapter, she posted a don't letter. Please don't say, I thought you'd be better by now. Please don't say he's in a better place. I'd rather have him here. Don't say you have other children. What? Would you give up one of your children? You know, and so she posted all these don'ts, but then she posted the do's. Do, you know, come out and play tennis with me. Do ask me about John. Do say his name. It's okay. He was my child, and he will be my child forever. Don't miss out on saying Jeff's name. So it was a really good kind of compilation of the things that really avoid doing and saying, and those things that really are are helpful. Yes, invite us over. We're okay. We're not contaminated. You know, we are social. We'd like to be social again. So I appreciated her name was Diane, and she had a really good list of do's and don'ts for approaching a family that's lost a child.

Speaker 27:28

I love that. And I'm glad you included that in your book because I think everybody that I have ever talked with wishes the same thing, that they could, if they could just sit down and write out those things that you just described. Because in some respects, you know, we nothing feels normal ever again. But we we want to experience something that feels normal, something that feels good, something that that kind of maybe is a temporary distraction. And we want to be able to laugh again. Sometimes it takes a while. And unfortunately, sometimes when you laugh again for the first time, you feel guilty. Because you're, you know, I know you know what I'm what I'm referring to here because you you feel like I shouldn't be feeling this good because my child died.

Speaker 2 28:27

Yeah. And that's you know, part of being able to re you know, one of the things she said, do tell me stories about things you did with my son.

Speaker 28:36

Yeah, yeah.

Speaker 2 28:38

Talk about him, you know?

Speaker 28:40

Yeah.

Speaker 2 28:41

If you're grandparent that is old and passes on, and you kind of like what we expect in life. You know, ultimately we lose our elders. But our children, it's not expected. But we tell stories about our grandparents all the time. So tell me stories about my son. It's okay.

Speaker 29:02

Absolutely. We you know, there's nothing that warms the heart of a grieving parent more than hearing their child's name and from somebody else and hearing somebody share a funny story or sharing just something that uh about what their child meant to them in whatever capacity it might have been. But just to hear that, it it is just, it's like a it's like a warm blanket on a cold day. I mean, they're they're just treasures that that parents that that parents just love to hear.

Speaker 2 29:40

Yeah, exactly. I remember one young girl, we when I came back to San Diego, friends got together at at my house and they were sharing stories about Jeff. That was the whole idea. It was kind of a memorial service in San Diego, but smaller and more casual. But this one young girl, Jeff was 19, and I think she was 19, she kept telling me how Jeff used to quote unquote hit on her. And how, you know, and that she just loved how he would call her and and you know, kind of court her a little bit. And I just remember that to this day, you know, about how she told that story, and we all laughed about it, you know, together.

Speaker 30:21

Yeah. So it is so it's so good when your focus can, you know at least even if it's just for a few minutes, can turn away from the focus on death and that that dark place to your child's life. And and eventually, over time, it becomes more and

Choosing Steps Forward Through Fog

Speaker 30:41

more about your child's life. But but you do have to move in that direction. You have to be intentional about it.

Speaker 2 30:50

I firmly believe that to get out of that dark valley of grief is a choice. You have to choose that you're not gonna stay there. I mean, I did not want to be the mother who lost a child. You know, I don't want to have somebody walk by and say, oh, that's the mother that lost a child. No, I'm a mother with a child. I'm a mother with all grandchildren. And so there's a point in time, like when my son said to me, We've you've got to go to work and I've got to go to school. You're making choices that are positive to bring you out of that grief. I mean, there's a fog, thank goodness, that enshrouds you for quite some time that is actually physical. A Christian psychologist told me that the brain actually in trauma has the frontal lobe clouds over. And that's why you are confused, you're not as effective, you're not organized, you forget things. It's the cloud, the fog that's protecting you from this incredibly painful experience. And thank God that He God created us with that ability. And I can remember the day I got up one morning and said to my husband, you know, it's a lot brighter today. And I thought, you know, I think the fog is lifting. I think I'm I'm seeing more clearly. But you really have to do things for that to happen. You have to choose to walk with friends, you have to choose to, you know, invite people over for dinner again. You have to start making choices that take you out of the valley. And that is the first step on your pathway to really, you know, savoring the years with your child, but then enjoying the rest of your life.

Speaker 32:43

Yeah, that's so important. You know, we sometimes we we like to say, it's okay not to be okay for a while. It's just not okay to stay not okay.

Speaker 2 32:55

Yes, that's right.

Speaker 32:57

It's it's about choosing, and sometimes it's so hard. You feel like I don't want to make one more decision. But you have to choose to put a step forward, put one foot forward. And sometimes you'll find that you've taken a couple of steps forward, and then it's like you find yourself feeling like you were back a couple of steps. But that's just the way grief works. It's unpredictable and it's messy, and it's it's just it's not an easy thing to do. But you you have to be engaged with it. You have to invite other people into it and sh and so that they can share it with you and help you carry some of that. Sometimes we have to borrow from their faith when ours gets weak. One of the things that I I think people struggle with sometimes, I know that that my wife really struggled after we lost Ryan with going to the grocery store. And people that that are that haven't lost a child probably find that hard to understand. It probably seems a little strange to them, but normal daily activities that that used to be a routine that you don't even have to think about. It's just stuff you know you gotta do. Going to church, like I said, going to the grocery store, going shopping, whatever it might be, or going out to eat, from your perspective, from your own grief journey, how did grief affect those things for for you, Linda?

Speaker 2 34:33

Yeah, um I again, because I was working and a single mom, I didn't have a lot of choice about putting one foot forward and another foot forward and moving forward. But it was when I got home, as you, you know, and either alone or, you know, with my son. And I I wouldn't want to cook dinner, you know, those simple things of just not wanting to do the simple tasks. And there's that again, there's a point when you start to realize that you're able to do that again. But you you have to forgive yourself. And there's a lot of things you have to forgive yourself for a lot of times. I know when I wrote my story for my book, the editor made me go back and tell more about the fact that my last face-to-face with my son was an argument. And actually, he ended up in tears. And then he drove away saying goodbye, and he was going off to flight school. But that was the last time I was with him face to face. And if I allowed it, that could permeate my life forever, that I did not have a chance to reconcile that disagreement. All the if only, if I could have, if I would have, I should have, all those words have are out of your control. And I could not take that back. So I had to allow, I had to give that to the Lord and allow that to be healed in my heart, that I would not have to carry with me the whole time I was processing losing a child that the last time I was with him was not a good time. And those experiences are things that we need to release and forgive ourselves. And that's not an easy thing to do.

Speaker 36:43

No, it's not. It's not. It's hard remembering those those kinds of interactions. And I can identify with what you're saying at a very personal level, Linda, because that happened with me as well, with Ryan. We had a couple of difficult conversations about some choices and decisions he was making. And of course, we didn't have the perspective, uh, like you, that we were going to lose Ryan. And, you know, it's not uncommon for parents and children to sometimes have disagreements and arguments. But we always think that we're there's got to be an opportunity to to resolve that. You know, to get to get things straightened out between us and things will be right again. But you didn't have that opportunity and and and nor did I. I know that Jeff knew that you loved him and Ryan knew that I loved him, but in the aftermath, you start replaying all those conversations, and you and you just wish if I had only said it differently, if I had only, if I had only, but we didn't have that perspective at the time. We we didn't see the future. We we surely things would have been different had we been able to do that. And that's why I think it's so important. One of the things that I've learned from this, from our own experience, is when you part from loved ones, I think it's important to always tell them I love you. And to try to part on good terms because we like to think that there will be more conversations, there'll be more visits, but we don't know that. We're not promised that. So I think it it's just made me more cognizant of the limitations that we have and the opportunities that we have, we should take advantage of to always remind other people how how we really feel about them and how we and how we care about and then love them.

Speaker 2 38:48

I, you know, that that is so important. I know and I notice that my son, Greg, my surviving son, tells me every time we talk, I love you, mom, before we hang up. And I and it's even a brief call and it's a business call because we're business partners together, at the end of the call, love you. And I I almost I think to myself, you know, he when we were flying to Idaho, he was crying and he was telling me I never told him I loved him and his brother. And you know, the those are the things that I think Satan wants to plague you with. He if it, you know, the devil would love for you to never forget the bad, but to and listen, and so we have to cling to the Holy Spirit to just really relieve our minds of the shoulda, coulda, woulda's and just focus on the wonderful times you had with your child. And that uh especially with an accident and in cases of suicide, you just had no control.

Speaker 40:03

Yeah. You're right. That's glad you said that and you said it well. Yeah, because we, you know, we just don't know. You know, we we live a lot of times with assumptions, and that sometimes can cause regrets. But it doesn't change anything, you know, if we focus on that.

Speaker 2 40:23

That's right.

Speaker 40:23

It does not change a thing, and we can't stay focused on, and and our children wouldn't want us to stay focused on those things that we have zero control over. They would want us to move forward, and they would want us to have a whole and healthy life again and to be able to enjoy life again because that's what they would want to do.

Speaker 2 40:45

Right. Exactly. It's you you said it well, Greg, because that's that is part of that processing and stepping forward and over time that we we forgive ourselves, we continue to love our kid, and to make the most of the experience and to like this this conversation together today. Our hope is that someone will hear this and that be it helped them in their walking through grief and the sticky parts of grief, that sticky part that wants to keep you there and bring you back to the wulda shoulda coulda's when you've just taken some great steps, you found yourself laughing, and then it was sticky back to, you know, but if only I'd just done this, or if only I just said that. It again, you have to purposefully flush. Purposefully flush.

Speaker 41:44

Yeah. Yeah, you're exactly right about that. Linda, do you feel like you're a different person today than you were the day before you lost Jeff?

Speaker 2 41:56

More than you know.

Speaker 41:58

Yeah.

Speaker 2 41:59

It absolutely, the Lord has used the death of my son to make me a better person, a better servant for him, more empathetic, more understanding, more patient, more desirous of helping others who have had a loss. I can't hear of a loss of a child, whether it's on the news or whether it's in my church or whether a friend tells me without hoping that maybe I can connect somehow to give them hope. I just I want them to see life after loss, and that there is to be that example and to be that bonding, not to thrust it on them, but just to walk beside them and say, you know, I'm here to help you, hold your hand, talk with you, be with you, but just know I was where you were, and now I'm here. Now I'm here. And that's what's the hope that we can bring out of our incredible pain.

Speaker 43:06

Yeah, and that's what people need in, particularly in that early season of grief. They just need to know that there's hope, that it's not gonna always feel the way it feels right now. It's not gonna be as dark as it is right now, and it's not gonna always be as painful as it is right now. There is hope, and just simply by offering the gift of your presence, just a maybe a quick text

Learning To Walk With God

Speaker 43:34

message I'm praying for you, just to let them know they're not alone.

Speaker 1 43:39

Right.

Speaker 43:39

That's it's so important. One other thing I wanted to ask you. So I know that you've been a believer for a long time, but sometimes in when we go through suffering and we we go through loss and pain, it changes our perspective about a lot of things. What did you learn about God on your grief journey that you maybe didn't know about him before, but thought you did? Does that make sense?

Speaker 2 44:12

You know, I became I made committed my life to Christ when my son, who was uh was only five, with a pastor that also had led the church where my five-year-old came out of Sunday school one day with his hand over his chest, over his heart, saying, Mom, I got Jesus in my heart. And I said, Oh how do you know? And he said, Because I asked him. And so that that, you know, 14 years later, he's in an accident and he's passing on.

Speaker 1 44:44

Yeah.

Speaker 2 44:45

And so through that whole walk of my life, I never lost my faith, but I lost my walk. I lost my purpose, I lost the connection. You can be a believer, but you're not necessarily a walker.

Speaker 45:06

And when we say that's that's good. That's good.

Speaker 2 45:11

It's really means that that faith is becoming a real whole part of your life. You know, I've I've in church and I've even been in Bible studies where you just study a book or you get a message or you do this, but Two years ago, I was introduced to The Bible Recap by Terry Lee Cobble, which is a Bible app that takes you through the Bible in 365 days, but it you only read like a 15-minute segment, and then she does a recap of what you just read to make it applicable. And the first time I did it, I said, I'm doing this for the rest of my life. Because I began to know God better than I ever had before. With the loss of Jeff, I walked my walk. I, you know, with the the Lord is my shepherd became very real. That became more real than it had ever been in my life. But when I started studying the Bible, God and the whole Trinity just made more sense and my faith really accelerated. So it's been a gradual increasing in faith and gradual increasing in my ability to be express it and share it with others. I know that for someone who's lost a child, they there are the thoughts, how could a good and wonderful God allow this to happen? You know, how and and we have to recognize we are in an imperfect world. You know, the is yet to come. I had a pastor say that when Jesus cried, when Lazarus died, when he wept, it was yes for Lazarus being in the tomb, but he wept because this world has death and his world does not. He knows the perfection of the life after death. Life after death. And so all of that just I kept being drawn closer and closer and closer and closer to a personal walk, not just a belief in God. That's one thing. It's walking with God. And that I keep repeating that word, but I can't say it any better because every day we're taking steps in one direction or another, making one good choice or one bad choice. And we make the bad choice and we can correct our steps. But reading through, especially the Old Testament, if you want to get to know God and how much he cares and how much he never gives up on you, it's read the Old Testament, especially when you can get a commentary that makes you see how much joy God wants to bring into your life. He's yeah, he constantly says, He's where the joy is. And that's that's it. That's it.

Speaker 47:49

Yeah. Well, the other we we both know that that suffering and pain and grief has a way, it tests our faith. Without a doubt. I mean, it it's the test is to it's when you when you realize that your faith is real or it's not real, and it has a way of refining that faith and kind of burning away the things that that we used to think were important and maybe that weren't so important, the thing that that really make us come to a personal understanding of what it really means in our daily relationship with him. It's not just about the religious activities, it's not about what I can do, it's about who he is and who he is in this with me. If we will give God the pain and suffering that we're going through, invite him into it, he'll take it and do something good with it that we can't even begin to think about because he doesn't waste anything. So I want you to tell us a little bit about how he's done that in your life because now you're in a position

Umbrella Ministries And Finding Support

Speaker 49:09

with a ministry that reaches out to grieving moms. So I want you to tell our listeners a bit about that.

Speaker 2 49:18

So after I was in after Jeff's loss going through that Bible, through the 23rd Psalm day by day, I was in a group of professional women who asked me to present on it. How did I walk to out of the valley? And so I wrote it up as a daily journal type of presentation, and then my church printed it. And then there was this ministry out in the desert. Somehow it got on the internet, and they picked it up and called me and asked me to come to a meeting, a conference, where there were going to be all mothers who had lost children. And would I speak to this group of mothers? Oh my gosh. I mean, I I, you know, I told my husband, you got to come with me. This sounds, this sounds like a huge challenge. But I'd given the presentation to people who had not lost children. They wanted to hear the about it, about the walk, the journey. And so I went to this conference and I walked into this auditorium with probably 10 tables with 10 people around each table, and I knew every mother in that room had lost a child, some one way or another. And I was able to present to them and then spend a weekend with them and talking with them and helping them and encouraging them, and they encouraged me. But they love to tell their stories also. People like to tell the story of their child that's no one with us. And so I became, then my my daughter-in-law lost a full-term baby, so I took her to a conference. And then my one of my friends that flew with me to Idaho when Jeff died, her daughter died by suicide. And so I was able to bring her to a conference and be alongside her. And then my daughter-in-law's sister passed, so we took her mother to a conference. And at that point, Daisy Catchings, who started the ministry, you know, asked me to be, you know, more involved in the ministry itself. And we were in Colorado at a conference, I'll never forget Estes Park, and she walked up to me and said, I want you to take over for me. I was like, I don't think so. I don't think that's my calling, Daisy. I I can speak and I can help, and I can do a group. I have a group once a month in my home on Saturdays, where mothers, 12 to 20 mothers come and we share when we build each other up. We tell our stories. And then we have lunch, which is where the real bonding comes in.

Speaker 51:48

Of course.

Speaker 2 51:48

Yes.

Speaker 51:49

But it's always over food, right?

Speaker 2 51:51

Right. So I came home from the conference, I told her I'd pray about it, and I sat down at dinner. I was telling Larry all about the conference, and he looked at me and he said, So when are you taking over for Daisy? And it was if you want to hear God speaking, it's when you never even told him that you were praying about it, and he gave you the answer. So that's been, I think that it's been about eight years that I've been chairman or president of the board.

Speaker 52:19

But of Umbrella Ministries.

Speaker 2 52:22

Umbrella Ministries, yes. And it's umbrella ministries.org on the internet. There's events, there's conferences, there's groups, there's Bible studies, there's just all kinds of encouragement right there on that website. And there's also one for San Diego, Umbrella Ministries SD.com for San Diego. But it's an incredible ministry. Uh the board is eight incredible mothers. Everyone involved has lost a child, and everyone is a volunteer. And we host three conferences a year: California, Colorado, East Coast, and a couples conference that is so powerful, bringing communication back to couples. So, wow, thank goodness I have a board who does all the work. I say, you're doing all the work for me. You make me look good. But it's a powerful ministry. And I think it's anyone who knows of someone who's lost a child doesn't know what to do. And they find reaching out to the ministry, we send out packets to new mothers if we get a name and an address, and then we try to connect to say if we can come alongside it. So that's that's it's a big dedication.

Speaker 53:41

That that is such an important ministry. Thank you for for your part in that and for your willingness to step into such a big role. That's that that is huge.

Speaker 2 53:54

Yes.

Speaker 53:54

And thank you guys for all that you're doing

How To Connect And Final Encouragement

Speaker 53:56

to to reach out with conferences and with small groups and with other resources to grieving moms. What's the best way for a mom who's listening today, who wants to get in touch with you guys to find out more? What's the best way for her to do that?

Speaker 2 54:14

Well, the best way is to go to the website and then there's the opportunity to click on get to know us and get to know more. And also I can provide my email, my personal email if you're comfortable with that, Greg, for people that need to want to be reached to receive re uh materials. And you know, sometimes that's the first step that a conversation can be difficult. And I have a mother that comes to my group now, has been coming for a year, but her daughter called me and she said, Got your number because you help mothers who've lost a child. And she said, My mom just lost a child. And I said, Well, do you want me to speak with her? And she said, Would you please? She puts her on the phone, we have this conversation, we're talking together, and I find out she is right there with her deceased child. It had just happened.

Speaker 55:12

Oh my gosh.

Speaker 2 55:13

I and that mother, I it's we we both say it was such a God thing because I've never ever had that experience before. But the daughter was so distraught and needed something for her mother. And we were able to talk right then, and I was able to help her also with some next steps. But we send out a packet that is really very helpful, includes my book, our founder's book, which is is really helpful and materials on the ministry. So I can give you my email and then I would forward it on to the office.

Speaker 55:47

Yeah, that sounds good. Why let's do this in your episode description? I'll include the umbrella ministry's website. And if you would like for me to include your email address, I'll be happy to do that.

Speaker 1 56:04

Okay.

Speaker 56:05

And we yeah, that's that's great. Linda, thank you so much for taking time out of your busy schedule because it obviously is with all the hats that you wear, and sharing your story, sharing your son with all of our listeners, and and just giving hope in some dark places today and letting people know that that there is hope for them as well. So thank you for being my guest.

Speaker 2 56:35

Well, thank you, Greg, for the opportunity. This gets the word out to many who are searching for hope and for a pathway out of grief, which don't do it alone. You've got the Lord and a good friend, and that will take you miles along the path.

Speaker 56:54

Absolutely. Well, thank you for for listening today. Thank you for joining us as always, and we hope that that you will come back again in two weeks to hear a new episode. Thank you so much.